The biggest news in the web comic world in which we live was today’s release of Ctl-Alt-Del the animated series. I can’t give my reactions to it because I haven’t seen it and personally I don’t care for the strip enough to pay for it.
However I am curious so if you love Tim Buckley’s work or just have an extra $1.95 to satisfy your curiosity post your take on it in the comment section, or the ever-popular Digital Strips forums.
Since Buckley’s in the news it got me thinking about him and his strip. Like I said, I don’t like it enough to pay for it, but I do read it. I’m pretty neutral in my opinion of CAD. I think it’s a decent strip in a competitive genre. I’m happy Buckley can make money from it. I hope other artists can share in his success.
From what I’ve read though on various forums and blogs, I’m in the minority with my indifference. Most people either love the man, or hate him with a passion normally reserved for grade school bus drivers.
I think people tend to feel so strongly is that CAD is such a high visibility strip. A lot of people read it and therefore have an opinion on it. When a lot of people have an opinion o the same thing they debate about it and feel more strongly than they did before. It just sort of snowballs from there.
I also think every world needs a bad guy, some one to boo. Conflict between what we perceive as good and evil make anything more interesting so people look for bad guys wherever they can find them and because of what he’s said and done, Buckley’s many people’s web comic villain.
Either way, it makes for some good discussion. Have at it.
People feel strongly about it because Buckley is such a jerk. Visability or popularity has nothing to do with it.
I don\’t think you can blame it solely on him being a jerk. A lot of webcomic creators are in one way or another. That\’s pretty much why they have their audience to begin with.
No, most of it comes from the \”My gang\” attitude a lot of fanboys have. You know, Marvel vs DC, Deep Space 9 vs Babylon 5, Penny Arcade vs CTRL+ALT+DEL… Basically, the web audience gets off on the shit talking and the drama, and traffic increases because of it. That\’s why we have so much of it, and that\’s why it will never go away.
I\’m going to open a can of worms here, but it\’s something that\’s been bothering me for quite some time. I hate the webcomic \’cliques\’ that have formed – it seems to have also pervaded other webcomic \’news\’ sites. Rather than explore and recognize all webcomics out there, there\’s the tendancy to simply hover over the same ones over and over again. It\’s like high school, with the nerds forming their own \’cool nerd\’ clique.
To a similar degree, I feel the same cliquishness pervades many other webcomics out there too. Many have no interest in sharing audiences or \’spreading the love\’, thereby stunting any new growth to the webcomic audience as a whole. Several are simply immature, preferring to become embroiled in the cannilbalistic \’webcomic drama\’, which I find to be extremely off-putting, as well as unprofessional.
There are exceptions, and do recognize and thank those true professionals out there, including Digital Strips and Comixpedia and a handful of webcomic creators out there. You know who you are. 🙂
-Krishna
I totally agree with Krisna. There\’s very little \”spread the love\” attitude out there. In fact, I was feeling this way earlier in the week and decided to throw some links out there to my audience of sites that I liked in my blog. I hadn\’t done that in months and it felt really good. The creators were very appreciative. It made the whole thing worthwhile.
I think people get into a possessive mindset and all comic become \”THE COMPETITION.\” But it\’s the *internet* people. Sites don\’t survive without cross promotion. I\’d rather see the genre grow as a whole than stilt itself.
Back on topic and more in response to The Geek\’s indifference to CAD. I\’m kind of in the same boat.
I don\’t hate Absath, but I understand why some people do. More than anything, I\’m interested in how he\’s been able to become a cottage industry unto himself. Especially when so few creators are able to do it.
I don\’t eagerly anticipate each new CAD comic, but when I read them, I enjoy them. I think the animation thing is *really* impressive.
Generally, I find it hard to begrudge his success. He\’s put a lot of work into what he\’s doing. I think the reason people find him polarizing is because he honestly doesn\’t care what his detractors thing about him. That draw his hardcore base closer to him while further alienating those who already don\’t like him. So both parties grow louder trying to counter one another and that\’s where all the drama comes from.
Holy crap, dicussion!
I think you guys have hit on a lot of why there\’s all the drama in webcomics and why really, there shouldn\’t be.
Unfortunatly the \”Us vs Them\” mentality is a very natural human emotion, like William said. We seem to have this knee-jerk reaction that anyone with an opinion that we don\’t share is stupid, rather than just different.
Really, webcomic fans should all be friends. We all like webcomics, that should be enough, we don\’t need to like the same webcomics.
I love it when an established webcomic creator will link to some new guy who they like. There\’s nothing that picks my day up like a new good comic that I end up bookmarking into my daily reads. I\’ve notice both Tom and Krishna do this often, as do most artists. Despite all the drama accross the board, I do think the majority of webcartoonist are in it for the enjoyment and know that the more the merrier.
That being said, let\’s find some kid who doesn\’t read webcomics and throw his ball on the roof of the school.
It\’s exciting to see a webcomic hook up with a fledgling media company to create an animated series.
They\’re building a business model to support the cost of producing the shorts and offering it to an established and accepting readership.
That\’s just fucking exciting.
But beyond that…it\’s CAD. And I paid to see the animtion. Despite all the work, effort and excitement that went into producing the first short…it\’s was boring and dull.
It doesn\’t offer even the humor that several online flash cartoons offer for free. Homestar Runner delivers more and cost less to make.
So the excitement begins and ends at the concept and execution.
Those are some interesting opinions on another webcomic, Scott. Have you ever considered stating your opinions on webcomics and the webcomic world on a regular basis in your blog? I think you\’d make a lovely webcomic critic.
NOTE: The above comment was intended as a riffing on an old argument and not an attempt to rehash said old argument. I think we all know it\’s a dead end.
Tune in next time as I add context to my smart-alec comments
So why bother bringing it up? You know, other than you being an obvious master of wit of course. Of course.
But not really.
Well, \”Donny\”…
I figured some of us may be mature enough to realize that when it comes down to it, the whole topic is rather pointless. Scott, as a creator, has the same right to review other webcomics/ webcomic products as anyone else making their own comic. He was even somewhat polite about his review of the CAD cartoon and didn\’t slag Buckley in the slightest. While not taking it into the zone of the personal may not appeal to some folks out there in webland looking for a reason to root for their \”gang\”, I applaud him for it.
Now, I wouldn\’t have bothered putting in the disclaimer, but someone I respect suggested that I should because, while I have gained some sort of perspective on the \”GREAT WEBCOMIC CRITICISM WAR OF 2005\”, others haven\’t. I admit that it was probably too soon to use it.
But \”Donny\” thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify myself even further. Cuz lord knows we can get over these causes of \”teh DRAMA!\” if we just act reasonably about them. I\’m certain you\’ll agree?
Never lose your smile, \”Donny\”.
My point William, is that you bring these things up so you can act snide and superior about things all while hiding under the guise of \”can\’t we all just get along?\”
You bring it up and when God forbid someone thinks you might have ulterior motives you try and brush it off as them being the instigator. Woe is William, he offers someone a poisoned apple pie and they get mad because they\’re allergic to apples. No wonder nobody can take you seriously.
As for drama, there is none. Drama implies that theres something more important at stake than the reputation of a bunch of over critical psuedo-intellectuals.
Sorry this dirty laundry has got to be aired out here, but I brought this on myself….
Scott, I was sincere with all of you.
Thankfully Jerry and Kris were decent enough to accept it, and NOT bring it up in public as a cheap attack. They could still do that and I\’d just have to suffer with the embarassment of having my words thrown back in my face. But I got big respect for those guys now because of their graciousness about it. It\’s a shame that you seem to unable to allow yourself to accept an apology honestly given. A damned shame. But my conscience is clear because I did the right thing.
And Scott, you do have the rights to give a review of the competition. Even the comic of someone you\’ve had a very public hate-on for quite some time. There is nothing untrue about what I said. You did rise above taking aim at Buckley and you should be given props for that. So I guess I just gotta say sorry for poking fun at you for doing something you\’re still pretty sensitive about.
Now…Donny.
I don\’t care to play the grudge game with you. Especially when it seems to be wrapped up in some sort of insecurity on your part for these \”over critical psuedo-intellectuals\”. I\’m not going to go throwing the hate back at you. But you really should sit back and think seriously about your positions on things.
Now, I admit that I like a good fight, but I\’ve realized that the high of antagonism has a hard come down. Some people thrive on it, and that\’s fine for them. But it\’s been put into perspective for me, and quite honestly, it\’s pretty pointless to vilify someone because they don\’t like the same things you do. So I\’ve been attempting to extract my head from my ass over the last few months.
I\’d be really happy if you and Scott joined me
William,
My god. We were asked to give our opinion and I gave it. Of course it\’s okay. I didn\’t need your seal of approval.
You\’re the one who drudged up the argument again, after you emailed me and asked if we could drop it.
I mean fuck, that\’s one of the reasons I felt it was safe to post in here without it turning into some god damned drama.
You need fucking help, dude.
Your unwillingness to let go of your habit of antagonism is depressing.
Actually, I\’m sorry for that as well. It\’s was kinda worded antagonisticly on my part.
But you\’re a bit of an enigma to me, Scott. I mean, you\’ve gone on record on many of an occasion decrying the drama and the personality clashes. Yet you seem to be unwilling to take the the nessecary steps needed to not perpetuate them yourself. I dont want to turn this into Dr. Phil, but do you feel that if you attempt any reconciliation, or softening of your stances, or compromise…that maybe someone will see you as \”weak\”?
Cuz, otherwise I cant understand why you cling so dearly to the very things that thrust you into the sitiuation you hate the most.
You can share without fear.
I was in here talking about the topic at hand. I was invited to leave a comment and I did so without malice or deviation from the subject.
What\’s so fucking enigmatic about that?
Listen, William, we\’re not friends. We\’re never going to be friends. I don\’t like you. I\’ll never like you.
We\’re never going to share a beer and laugh about the days when we used to argue.
I\’m done talking to you, forever. So here\’s my parting gift to you. You can say whatever you want about me now…from now on…and I\’ll never respond back.
You have the last word and carte blanche. Go nuts.
That was awesome.
So, any other opinions out there about CAD\’s new animation?
Wow. Kurtz for the win!
I guess theres no need for me to point out the irony (or hypocricy, take your pick) in a guy calling everyone who disagrees with him insecure while its clear that he craves the validation of others from his work and his critiques. \”Love me! Love me!\” says the William G as he goes on another tangent at Web Snark about how much he hates Penny Arcade.
I could say that, but I won\’t.
How does one \”win\” here, exactly? Being able to hold on to your hostility no matter what is admirable? Quite the skewed world view.
This whole exchange, especially on Donny\’s part, has been a pretty good case sample of the earlier \”Us VS Them\” discussion. Kinda funny really, when taken in context.
The only people who\’ve won here are Tom, Krishna, and The Geek. Try to remember that, fellows.
And Scott, I never sought your friendship. All I want from you was some basic human decency. And it\’s a shame how a guy in your position cant seem to provide that.
But hey, at least you \”won\” right?
Its only \”us vs them\” if I declare a preference for something over the other. I haven\’t named one person I like more than you although admittedly the list is probably quite long. Epic even.
I hear it might even be front and back.
Well, its the seventh of the month of February. Shouldn\’t you be pitching a hissy fit and leaving the world of webcomics commentary again William?
Actually, I\’ve never returned to it.
But don\’t you think you\’re being foolish right now? Unfocused anger over… not liking the things you do, I guess. Or perhaps a misguided defense of things that dont really require you to grandstand so much. An unacceptance of differing POVs on your part? Not agreeing with your slagging Tim Buckley because someone who\’s comic you like doesnt like him? Anger over the term \”Fanboy\”? All of the above? Something secret in your personal life? I don\’t know you so I cant really say what motivates you.
Still, breathe and think. Just because Scott cant give up his addiction to hostility doesnt mean you have to follow suit.
But yet here you are, giving your opinion about webcomics. Its like you quit smoking only to take up chewing tobacco.
William, William, William…C\’mon man, I\’m being insulting and condescending not angry. Its hostility yes but its served with a smile. And do you really think you\’re going to get a true rise out of anyone by playing passive-aggressive with them?
I think William, that my biggest problem with you is that I can\’t take anything you say at face value. You\’re not going to answer any of this with a straight truth. You\’re going to insist that somethings wrong with me and then argue against points I never made in the first place.
So I think we\’re done here. I\’m taking a cue from Kurtz and I\’m quitting you.
I hope you have fun when the only person who\’ll listen to you is yourself.
wow, There is way to much drama here. i thought that CAD\\\’s animation was very funny and well worth a few bucks. The voices were great they sounded very professional. I can see some work on the animation itself it felt a bit choppy and needs some fine tunning. I put down the money for full year, so lets see how it all works out.
John Morris